HighsNoblety today interview.
Full Transcript of the Interview
1. In Jonah’s text messages to Sarah, he asks her to stop doing several things, including surfing with men, posting photos of herself in a bathing suit, and modeling. Are these legitimate things to ask of a partner?
Great question. In the now infamous text exchange, Jonah presents Sarah with several areas of uncomfortability for him in the form of that laundry list of items. For the record, there is nothing wrong with a partner sharing about areas of vulnerability and discomfort, or even asking for reassurance and comfort from their partner around these areas that induce insecurity or fear of abandonment or betrayal. With that said, it is critical to note the undertones in Jonah’s text messages, for he was not merely asking Sarah to stop doing these things—he was giving her an ultimatum between engaging in these activities, or having him as a partner. Asking and telling are not the same. While it’s acceptable to say, “this behavior makes me uncomfortable and I wish it didn’t,” or I wish I could avoid this feeling of discomfort somehow,” it is another thing entirely to say, “this behavior makes me uncomfortable, and because I’m uncomfortable, you will now need to alter your behavior and rearrange it in a way that gives me a feeling of comfort.” Such a suggestion infers that Jonah’s internal emotional life has a higher priority value than Sarah’s happiness, livelihood, identity, and personal freedoms.
If Jonah felt that being in a relationship with Sarah was untenable unless she amended her lifestyle, then the correct statement would be, “I care about you and would like to be in a relationship with you, but I am too insecure at this moment in time to tolerate the feelings of discomfort triggered by your public image, body, surf culture, and social life, so I need to take space, do some more work on myself, and perhaps come back when I am strong enough to tolerate my insecurities and accept you for you are at this moment.” It is never the job of a partner to determine our comfort. That is, as we shrinks like to say, “an inside job.” Expecting others to change so that we aren’t triggered is unrealistic, and an ineffective relational strategy, no matter what kind of relationship it is (parent/child, friendship, siblings.) People don’t owe us behavioral change. We can ask, but it’s never owed.
2. I’ve been seeing a lot of discussion online about how Jonah’s text messages weaponize “therapy speak” — for example, he characterizes the things he doesn’t want Sarah doing as his “boundaries for romantic partnership.” What are your thoughts on this?
As we know by the brilliant film Stutz, Jonah appreciates, and has participated in, therapy. Unfortunately, Jonah’s experience as a longtime therapy patient does not qualify him as a therapist himself, and he is certainly not Sarah’s therapist. What we see in the texts is Jonah utilizing a “one-up position” with Sarah, acting as expert on boundaries by way of his experience in therapy, and simultaneously capitalizing on her lack of experience with “therapy-speak.” This is actually manipulative, whether Jonah intends it to be or not. In Jonah’s desperation to feel comfortable in his relationship, Jonah presents his boundaries in a way that suggests they are endorsed by his therapist, and covertly uses his therapist as an abettor to his statements (while it is highly unlikely that any therapist would have validated Jonah’s demands within the context they were presented.)
Jonah’s weaponizing use of term ‘boundaries’ reflects his ignorance of the therapeutic tool he’s attempting to utilize. Boundaries are intended to insulate something that is precious to us, in order to protect it. Jonah can set boundaries for himself, as we all may, but he is in fact very much crossing a boundary by setting boundaries for his partner’s behavior.
3. I’ve seen people point out that setting boundaries doesn’t mean setting “rules” for other people - do you agree, and do you have any examples of more appropriate asks when it comes to boundary-setting?
We set boundaries for ourselves. A boundary that dictates the behavior of another person is not a boundary, but a ploy for control. For example, we can’t set a boundary that a parent doesn’t drink too much at a holiday dinner. We CAN set a boundary that if a parent drinks too much at a holiday dinner, we can choose not to be around them, by either leaving or asking them to leave. Boundaries are how we pre-determine our level of participation in a tricky situation. Here is an example of an appropriate boundary that Jonah could have set with Sarah: “I have decided that it’s too triggering for me to see people admiring your body on Instagram, so I’ve decided to unfollow your account so I don’t have to look.”
4. How do you think gender and gender roles play into the conflict between Jonah and Sarah?
Jonah wanted Sarah to cover up, and specifically limit socializing with men, because he saw her body as an object of lust and objectification. Jonah did not trust other men around Sarah with her body, but he also did not trust Sarah with her body. Jonah’s request that Sarah limit viewership of her body to him alone indicates possession, and such a viewpoint is rarely seen in a female to male relationship. Jonah saw Sarah’s body as possessing the power to attract admiration and arousal, and he wanted to rid her of this power in order to disempower Sarah.
5. Is there anything else about Jonah’s text messages that raises red flags for you?
This conflict was marked not only by gender and gender roles, but by the power and economic imbalance between a wealthy celebrity and someone who is not. Jonah’s tone with Sarah implies superiority, and is alternately pedantic, patronizing, dismissive, and ridiculing. Jonah holds the power in the relationship with Sarah, and Sarah must accommodate his whims and demands, or another woman will step in who will. Jonah’s knowledge of his celebrity and fame comes through his lines as entitlement and expectations that Sarah will cater to his wishes because his needs and wants are of higher importance than hers.
At one point in the interchange, Jonah and Sarah reference a financial arrangement. Sarah has begun questioning Jonah’s authority, and confronting his behavior. Jonah reminds her that he has financial leverage over her, even including her own psychotherapy bill. He offers to continue to pay for her therapy through the end of the year, which is unsettling, because many therapists may be swayed to side with a celebrity who is footing the bill over his partner, who is not. Sarah’s financial dependence on Jonah is an overlooked element in the power differential between them. Sarah was beholden to Jonah, and more likely to acquiesce to his demands, however unreasonable, because he was helping her.
6. There’s been a fair bit of criticism leveraged at Sarah for posting the messages online. What’s your take on that?
The veracity with which Sarah has unleashed this character assassination is without question concerning. Over the past week, Sarah has doubled down and posted a near constant stream of private text messages between herself and her famous ex. While Sarah may have recently experienced a therapeutic breakthrough in which she feels freed from her self-blame around not being able to make this relationship work, Sarah’s compulsive posting and incessant attacks on Jonah are misguided. I believe that Sarah’s motive to help liberate other women from controlling relationships has been surpassed by her righteous indignation, and desire for revenge. When we are so committed to ‘cancelling’ someone due to their treatment of us, it is generally more constructive to look inward and find forgiveness for the qualities in ourselves that allowed such disrespect. In lieu of persisting with her focus on Jonas, I would recommend addressing this anger and venom in therapy, so it can be productive.
·7. Do you think Jonah’s behavior constitutes emotional abuse? Do you have any advice for someone in a similar predicament?
Most people, at some time or another, will exhibit emotional abuse towards another person. I have treated many couples who were stuck in a pattern of emotional abuse with one another for decades, only to enter couples counseling, learn tools, become better attuned to one another and themselves, and find a new, peaceful and productive communication style. Sometimes, individuals are emotionally abusive in one relationship, and become emotionally abused in another. Poor communication skills and inadequate conflict resolution can be resolved in therapy, with impressive results. It would be unfair to label Jonah as an emotional abuser. Rather, it is fair to say that Sarah’s world and all that came along with it presented a challenge to Jonah which he could not overcome. Rather than acknowledging the mismatch between his insecurities and her lifestyle, Jonah attempted to force Sarah to become someone she is not. Upon discovering that, Sarah exploded with rage, mostly self-directed, for having put the success of a relationship above her personal authenticity. This rage has largely come out at Jonah as the trigger for her self-abandonment. One would hope that she is also looking at her part, and giving herself grace for losing herself in people-pleasing to suit a charismatic personality. Ultimately, no relationship is worth self-abandonment, and a healthy relationship will never request divorcing parts of yourself in order to maintain its survival.
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